Box 22, Folder 19, Document 12

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Box 22, Folder 19, Document 12

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Washington, October 28, 1966
Rough Notes taken by Paul Ilvisaker
Distri but i on : -
Dr . Julian Levi
Honorable Ivan Allen
Mr . Ben Alexander
Mr . Edwin C. Berry
Mr . stuart Chapin
Mr . Anthony Downs
Professor John Dunlop
Mr. Ezra Ehrenkrant z
Mr. Ralph Helstein
Dr. Theodore Sizer
Mr. Ar Dee Ames
�Notes taken at meeting with Joe Califano, White House, Saturday, October 22, 1966
Mr. Califano
The Task Force is to have a short and long-range agenda with respective deadlines
being December 1 and June 1.
For the short-range the questions:-
( 5)
Should we encourage home-ownership in the slums and if so by what methods?
Does the idea of an urban development corporation for rehabilitation make
How can we honor the Presidential pledge to prov ide legal services for
tenants in the ghetto?
How can we honor the Presidential pledge for neighborhood service centers?
What about the proposed metropolitan expediter?
Task Force should proceed without constraints of costs and politics.
We should
keep in mind several other task forces operating in areas close to ours.
example, the "In-House" task force under Shriver to develop more permanent answers
to the hot summer problem.
Another headed by Bill Carmichael on personnel for the
Great Society .
The subject of transportation is currently being thoroughly examined with a view
towards setting up a new Department of Transportationj to that extent it's not a
subject on our task force's agenda.
Two Congressional committees having the same personnel will be holding hearings
during our tenure.
One chaired by Senator Muskie, exploring the proposal for a
domestic security council.
The second chaired by Senator Ribicoff which will
resume in December will not call government witnesses for a while.
It will con centrate first on non-governmental experts, beginning with the problems of data
and areal power arrangements.
Meeting with Secretary Weaver
Concerned with:(1)
( 3)
the development of national urban policy respecting migration and location of
the national populationj
encouraging a more positive role by the states in urban policy developmentj
metropolitan organization.
Robert C. Wood
Under Secretary
Department of Housing and Urban Developmen~
HUD is now concerned with several major pr ob~ems:-
working at s cale: fo r example, they now have $2 billion of urban
renewal appli cations with only $200 million available;
building up the staff ing c apabilitie s of the Department;
general r eorgani zation;
de-centralization of HUD operations -- bett er informat i on systems are
needed if de- centralization is to b e carried out.
The new programs occupying HUD' s attention of late: "model" cities; new
connnunities; expediter; metr opolitan desks; metropolitan planning.
HUD has been pr oceeding on the strategy of open opti ons; the expansion of free
choice for the individual; model for neighborhood facilities; home ownership
& jobs in the ghetto; provide count erparts f or the public s ector.
Wood's adv i ce t o the Task Force:(1)
Address ourselves to thoughts about cities; not only response t o them
and t he ir needs.
Concent r at e on t he infra-struct ure in research & training .
has been manpower .
Real constraint
M. Cart er McFarland
Assistant Commissioner f or Progr ams
Has been working c l os el y with Henry Schecht er
c~ec k out t he i dea of indi genous ownership of
wi th as s ympatheti c an out l ook a s possi ble.
vi nced ther e i s no s ingl e panacea; I det ected
he t ried to allow i n hi s di sc uss i ons.
sinc e they were assi gned t o
s l um pr operty . They have begun
At t he v ery l ea st t hey are conmor e of a grain of cyni c ism than
They start from a few b a s i c statistics : 9 milli on sub -st andar d dwelling units
nat i onwi de; of which 48% are owner -oc c upi ed and 52% re nted.
However , a gre at
v ari ance between centra l c i ty and s uburb. - -r n the s l ums : 21% owner- occupi ed
and 79% rented -- in the suburbs : 52% owner- occupi ed and 48% rented.
It is thei r impression that absent ee owners are le s s r espons ive to mai ntenanc e
eff orts than owners who occupy.
Al s o that absent ee ownershi p i s incr eas i ng
and getting "less desi rab l e . "
They fee l that ownership ha sn't been str es s ed as part of urba n re newal and
0E0 operations.
Some proposal s:
(1 )
(2 )
tie in any program wi th the mode l cit i es program which
offers supporting services;
use the urba n devel opment corporat i on if l egislated;
allow for several forms of ownership ranging from
individual ownership to cooperat i ve.
�-3Task Force questions included:-
Are there other and more effective techniques for getting the desired
results other than encouraging ownership?
Can you use old and new techniques for driving down the costs of property
in the slum areas?
These costs are now being sustained by present governmental programs.
Wha~ can we say about the possibility of "steady state" maintenance?
Aren't we trying to eliminate slums and how does slum ownership fit
into that objective?
William D. Carey
Assistant Director
Bureau of the Budget
So far no comprehensive strategy has been arrived at in the federal government
replying to varying proposals for the neighborhood information service centers.
During the summer several agencies produced "talking documents" for the Cabinet
Cormnitt ee.
Then the President's Syracuse speech "overtook" the Task Force with
a . "get cracking" order. . There emerged a servic e group for the facilities approach
of HUD, the latter focusing on recreation, etc.
They were then talking about
$50 million drawn from "pooled" program monies.
Presently they are thinking of experiments in 14 cities of 3 classes -- the sponsor. ing coalition would be OEO , HUD, Labor and HEW.
The purpose would be to provide
one-stop soc ial services to use 3 different models.
Physical facilities would
not be the primary emphasis.
The key would be to br ing toget her all serv i ces and
clients and evaluate the experiments.
Ralph Tayl or
As si stant Secretar y for Demon st rat ions and Int er governmental Relations
If model cities program is to succeed, need a rehabilitation industry of a scale
that hasn't yet emerged.
Industry, large contractors and labor ar e s~itti sh.
The proposed UDC approach using low interest rates and much volume as l evers,
hopefully might break through. The question remains whether the UDC would have
its own H&D or let industry do this according to performance standar d s that UDC
would set.
Major questions have to do with the market .
Another question has
to do with local mechanisms.
Indi genous c9operatives might be one answer.
As for the proposed expediter -- it ' s now be ing c alled a representative.
should not be confused with the idea of the metropolitan coordinator which is
The representative is to be the federal "pr esence " -- housed in HUD but
�-4available to all agencies.
It would be a source of information on federal
· programs; clearing house; .liaison; feedback; facilitator.
HUD is ready to
go in six experimental cities not necessarily the model c ities and concentrating
on state capitals .
. Martin Richman
Off ice of Legal Couns el
Department of Justic e
The Attorney General ' s work with landlord-tenant relations has taken its marching
orders from the Syr acuse speech .
It will Qe cal ling a conference in early
December .
They will be apparently concerned with tax incentives, though they are
not deali ng directly wi th the que st i on of r educi ng local property taxation .
. Comments from Task Force
Mayor Allen
Nat urally and necessaril y i s conc erned with i mmediate probl ems especi ally the
need for publi c hous ing and the problems of race and minoritie s.
Mr. Helstein
Agr ees that t he most pr essing prob lem is t hat of the ghetto.
Mr. Downs
·Disagr ees wit h Secr et ary Wirtz i f i t means forgetting the immediate probl ems
of the ghetto and r a ce.
Dr . Chapin
Especially c oncerned with three sub j ects :
(1) Impact on l ivi ng patt ern s of t he short er work week .
(2 ) · Emerging urban form; concentrating on the inner - cit y a nd regi onal arrangement s
necessary to get linear development .
(3) The dynamite of the central city -- wondering if there isn ' t a General Gavin
idea of enclaves of development.
Mr . Ehrenkrant z
Two matters on his mind:
(1 )
(2 )
urban development corporation
developing the data systems and inventory we need
on an accumulat ing basis.
Mr. Alexander
Impressed with the fundamental outline of the urban problem. We have neither
a theory on which to operate nor criteria by whi ch to measure purp0se.

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